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Australian GP 2017
03-21-2017, 06:18 PM
Post: #1
Australian GP 2017
Looking forward to seeing how the new reg cars perform.

Looks like Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull are still the front. There is a lot of discussion re the drivers needing to adjust to the new cars and it will be interesting to see if that is the case how some of the front running drivers adjust.

As an Aussie I am obviously hoping Ricciardo goes well in Melbourne an this year

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/...e56418315c
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03-21-2017, 07:27 PM
Post: #2
RE: Australian GP 2017
I don't think we are getting it live on terrestrial TV. So I am either going to have to steal sky of the interwebthing or watch it on RTL. Hruumph.

I hope Dan does well, but I reallly really hope Valteri kicks Hammywammy's butt all over the park.

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03-21-2017, 09:35 PM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2017 09:35 PM by Koala.)
Post: #3
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-21-2017 07:27 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  I don't think we are getting it live on terrestrial TV. So I am either going to have to steal sky of the interwebthing or watch it on RTL. Hruumph.

I hope Dan does well, but I reallly really hope Valteri kicks Hammywammy's butt all over the park.

I'm down in Melbourne for a conference on the Thursday/ Friday but unfortunately due to commitments on Sunday can't stay for the race - I am managing to get to Lygon street for dinner Friday night (with a mate who is down for the race)which is always a hive of F1 related activity over the race weekend as well as having great restaurants
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03-22-2017, 06:32 AM
Post: #4
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-21-2017 09:35 PM)Koala Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:27 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  I don't think we are getting it live on terrestrial TV. So I am either going to have to steal sky of the interwebthing or watch it on RTL. Hruumph.

I hope Dan does well, but I reallly really hope Valteri kicks Hammywammy's butt all over the park.

I'm down in Melbourne for a conference on the Thursday/ Friday but unfortunately due to commitments on Sunday can't stay for the race - I am managing to get to Lygon street for dinner Friday night (with a mate who is down for the race)which is always a hive of F1 related activity over the race weekend as well as having great restaurants
Is the Ferrari display on on Lygon ST on Friday night

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03-22-2017, 08:16 AM
Post: #5
RE: Australian GP 2017
Fingers crossed we get more than just faster cars that are impossible to overtake in.

With a 2am start time for me there is little chance I will bother to watch this one, plus my wife only tolerates so much racing on a weekend and MotoGP starts on Sunday afternoon.
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03-22-2017, 06:52 PM
Post: #6
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-22-2017 06:32 AM)leonbray Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 09:35 PM)Koala Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 07:27 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  I don't think we are getting it live on terrestrial TV. So I am either going to have to steal sky of the interwebthing or watch it on RTL. Hruumph.

I hope Dan does well, but I reallly really hope Valteri kicks Hammywammy's butt all over the park.

I'm down in Melbourne for a conference on the Thursday/ Friday but unfortunately due to commitments on Sunday can't stay for the race - I am managing to get to Lygon street for dinner Friday night (with a mate who is down for the race)which is always a hive of F1 related activity over the race weekend as well as having great restaurants
Is the Ferrari display on on Lygon ST on Friday night

Not sure but I hope so.

Last time I went to the GP Crown had a great display of cars - I'm staying at Crown this trip so hopefully they have a display this year also.
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03-24-2017, 10:30 AM
Post: #7
RE: Australian GP 2017
The cars are certainly louder I have not been at the track but certainly I heard them today from a fair distance away and they are not "quiet"
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03-25-2017, 03:28 AM (This post was last modified: 03-25-2017 03:29 AM by leonbray.)
Post: #8
RE: Australian GP 2017
Now F1 have made live timing subscription only. Think I'll get convertible out of the shed and go for a cruise. Screw F1

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03-25-2017, 10:35 AM
Post: #9
RE: Australian GP 2017
G'day from the outskirts of Albert Park, Melbourne.

After missing last year's race, I'm back for the new regs of 2017.

I'll cut to the chase - I'm no less impressed by "the spectacle" than I was when the V6 engines appeared in 2015. The cars are faster if you look at the timing sheets, but there's no way of feeling how fast they are. The lack of noise is still a joke. The increased down force means they corner like they're on rails. I know that's a big generalisation but there's no big changes in lateral movement to "show" they're harder to handle due to increased cornering speeds.

There was a display in one of the back lot marquees. Perhaps it is a scale version of where F1 is headed. What I watched was quiet, fast, but boring. It was a slot car track of Albert Park!

Another photo I tried to take sums up the ambience. There's a hospitality venue halfway down the main straight. I stood behind 2 men who were as close as the authorities allowed them to stand to the edge of the track. That distance was the length of Hamilton's car. The men were standing side by side, enjoying a beer and having a conversation. There was no shouting, no ear plugs, and certainly no punch in the chest as the car changed up a gear adjacent to where they were standing.

On Thursday I did a pit walk with thousands of other punters. One of the Ferrari engines started up mid tour. Usually there'd be a crush of people racing to get closer to the garage to have their body massaged by the sonic waves of Ferrari music. But this time, the Minardi V10 2-seater was idling on the main straight. People were rushing to the pitwall to hear what used to be the pinnacle of engineering entertainment. Today (Sat) I spoke with a guy that's had the same seats near me for a few years. I asked him if he was near the Ferrari garage when the motor started. He said he wasn't and said how sad he felt that he didn't know it happened until I mentioned it today.

From my seat on the start/finish line I can barely hear the cars on the back of the circuit. The on track PA commentary blocks out the distant sounds of the cars. The Mindardi 2seater is easily heard as it goes around the track - and it's just 1 car.

In addition to the F1 cars there's a range of support races: Porsche Cup, GT Series (Lambos, Ferrari, etc) and V8 Supercars. All of them have a unique sound and sound great. It used to be the case that the V8 Supercars were disappointing to listen to after watching the F1 cars ; now it's opposite.

I hope I'm wrong, but it's going to be hard to sell expensive tickets to an event that hosts something that's less exciting to watch than other categories of motor sport. The track record was broken today, but there was nothing at the track to know you've been part of something special other than seeing the numbers on the big screen. There needs to be reasons to part with your cash if you're not a die-hard purist.

On another note, there were a couple of Dukes of Hazzard cars on display. I thought that was cool. There's actually a lot of historic displays around the park, as well as new car collections. It's a great event. It's just not as great an experience as it once was. Let Formula E stake it's claim and return F1 to its rightful place as the pinnacle of motor sport entertainment.

I don't have a laptop with me. I don't know how to embed pics from my phone into the post. Pics relating to the post are here. PHOTOS

I'll add some pics from my camera when I get home next week.

Enjoy the race on TV, folks.

Not bad for a No. 2 Driver
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03-25-2017, 07:55 PM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2017 03:19 AM by Koala.)
Post: #10
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-25-2017 03:28 AM)leonbray Wrote:  Now F1 have made live timing subscription only. Think I'll get convertible out of the shed and go for a cruise. Screw F1

It is on Chanel 10 so at least you get to see the the race without foxtel.

Enjoy the drive - I just bought a 2000 SLK320 convertible (6 cylinder version) with only 70,000 KMs on it to go with my MX - I don't "need" it but could not resist it Big Grin

(03-25-2017 10:35 AM)Original JB Wrote:  G'day from the outskirts of Albert Park, Melbourne.

After missing last year's race, I'm back for the new regs of 2017.

I'll cut to the chase - I'm no less impressed by "the spectacle" than I was when the V6 engines appeared in 2015. The cars are faster if you look at the timing sheets, but there's no way of feeling how fast they are. The lack of noise is still a joke. The increased down force means they corner like they're on rails. I know that's a big generalisation but there's no big changes in lateral movement to "show" they're harder to handle due to increased cornering speeds.

There was a display in one of the back lot marquees. Perhaps it is a scale version of where F1 is headed. What I watched was quiet, fast, but boring. It was a slot car track of Albert Park!

Another photo I tried to take sums up the ambience. There's a hospitality venue halfway down the main straight. I stood behind 2 men who were as close as the authorities allowed them to stand to the edge of the track. That distance was the length of Hamilton's car. The men were standing side by side, enjoying a beer and having a conversation. There was no shouting, no ear plugs, and certainly no punch in the chest as the car changed up a gear adjacent to where they were standing.

On Thursday I did a pit walk with thousands of other punters. One of the Ferrari engines started up mid tour. Usually there'd be a crush of people racing to get closer to the garage to have their body massaged by the sonic waves of Ferrari music. But this time, the Minardi V10 2-seater was idling on the main straight. People were rushing to the pitwall to hear what used to be the pinnacle of engineering entertainment. Today (Sat) I spoke with a guy that's had the same seats near me for a few years. I asked him if he was near the Ferrari garage when the motor started. He said he wasn't and said how sad he felt that he didn't know it happened until I mentioned it today.

From my seat on the start/finish line I can barely hear the cars on the back of the circuit. The on track PA commentary blocks out the distant sounds of the cars. The Mindardi 2seater is easily heard as it goes around the track - and it's just 1 car.

In addition to the F1 cars there's a range of support races: Porsche Cup, GT Series (Lambos, Ferrari, etc) and V8 Supercars. All of them have a unique sound and sound great. It used to be the case that the V8 Supercars were disappointing to listen to after watching the F1 cars ; now it's opposite.

I hope I'm wrong, but it's going to be hard to sell expensive tickets to an event that hosts something that's less exciting to watch than other categories of motor sport. The track record was broken today, but there was nothing at the track to know you've been part of something special other than seeing the numbers on the big screen. There needs to be reasons to part with your cash if you're not a die-hard purist.

On another note, there were a couple of Dukes of Hazzard cars on display. I thought that was cool. There's actually a lot of historic displays around the park, as well as new car collections. It's a great event. It's just not as great an experience as it once was. Let Formula E stake it's claim and return F1 to its rightful place as the pinnacle of motor sport entertainment.

I don't have a laptop with me. I don't know how to embed pics from my phone into the post. Pics relating to the post are here. PHOTOS

I'll add some pics from my camera when I get home next week.

Enjoy the race on TV, folks.

Interesting post JB I was at Port Philip Bay Thursday and heard the cars and thought things might have improved but perhaps the track is far closer than I assumed based on your eye (or ear witness) account

Unfortunately I could not stay for the race.

Hope you enjoy the race - wish I could have stayed - hopefully I can make it next year as I have not been for a few years.

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03-26-2017, 03:34 AM
Post: #11
RE: Australian GP 2017
Disappointing race for Ricciardo

It was Vettel and then everyone else
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03-26-2017, 04:03 AM
Post: #12
RE: Australian GP 2017
Quite possibly the most boring F1 race I've ever seen.
Was there one pass for position between two cars not compromised?

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03-26-2017, 06:33 AM
Post: #13
RE: Australian GP 2017
I remember The Host in a January podcast quoting a Pirelli spokesperson as this season could be "stinko" due to lack of tyre deg, wide cars being hard to pass, etc. Seems it was true.

I've found more often than not than when a driver loves a car or loves a track, it's boring for spectators; and vice versa - cars that are hard to control or tracks with great viewing positions are hated by drivers. It's a funny old world.

Today was the first Ferrari win at Melbourne for 10 years. Melbourne has a huge Italian presence due to post WW2 migration. There's a restaurant strip full of Italian restaurants 5 minutes from my hotel. It's 8.30pm now and I'm heading out for a walk to enjoy the Italian passion that will be at fever pitch. I'm hoping it will be my highlight of the weekend 😊

As for the sound of the cars.... Listening to the start today, perhaps the lower revs and V6 configuration is changing the pitch more than the volume. I know nothing about acoustics, but the Mindardi 2 seater sounded sooooo good this morning, regardless of the decibels.

Not bad for a No. 2 Driver
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03-26-2017, 09:02 AM
Post: #14
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-26-2017 04:03 AM)cozmoose Wrote:  Quite possibly the most boring F1 race I've ever seen.

+1

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03-27-2017, 10:26 AM
Post: #15
RE: Australian GP 2017
so the masses called for the greatness of the 90's/early 2000's...we got faster cars and Ferrari won in a boring race. Amazing what rose tinted glasses do when we look back.

Perhaps all those years listening to the loud engines is the reason the old school can't hear the new engines....if F1 is the pinnacle it can't be loud like that, noise is wasted energy.

It will be interesting to see how Liberty go about attracting a new generation of F1 fans, I suspect they may have to sacrifice some of the older ones to achieve it. The noise will never be socially acceptable again, so achieving something to draw fans in will be an interesting challenge. I'm sure the other sub-classes will go hybrid in due course as the tech filters down to a more acceptable cost.
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03-27-2017, 07:09 PM
Post: #16
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-27-2017 10:26 AM)chemics Wrote:  so the masses called for the greatness of the 90's/early 2000's...we got faster cars and Ferrari won in a boring race. Amazing what rose tinted glasses do when we look back.

Perhaps all those years listening to the loud engines is the reason the old school can't hear the new engines....if F1 is the pinnacle it can't be loud like that, noise is wasted energy.

It will be interesting to see how Liberty go about attracting a new generation of F1 fans, I suspect they may have to sacrifice some of the older ones to achieve it. The noise will never be socially acceptable again, so achieving something to draw fans in will be an interesting challenge. I'm sure the other sub-classes will go hybrid in due course as the tech filters down to a more acceptable cost.


... the volume isn't the issue, the sound is. A naturally aspirated hybrid like a LaFerrari, has a far more engaging sound than the current F1 V6 turbos. Even twin turbo V6's have a better exhaust note.

The relevancy of turbo engines for road cars is waning as manufacturers find that turbos drink more fuel when pushed.

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03-27-2017, 08:06 PM
Post: #17
RE: Australian GP 2017
Interesting reading these posts.

In some ways I think i only watch F1 because I am addicted to it. I was content during the race because we had gone through the off season and I could quite happily listen to Brundle and Crofty talk about Formula One. But it didn't watch the race live, which a few years ago would of been unheard of in my household.

What surprised me most was the complete lack of criticism from the Sky team. I’m not sure whether they are just trying to keep people interested? The race had one interesting moment, which was Vettel taking the lead.

It very much reminded me of the Schumacher era. When he used to win based on pit stop strategy alone. I have no idea why people craved a return to this kind of spectacle. Talk about style over substance….

I am more confident in the future that F1 will improve. The new management do seem switched on. If we have a really dull season, things will have to change.

I will reserve judgement until the next few races. It is true to say that Australia has never been an overtaking goldmine. However I have a sad feeling in the back of my mind, that my addiction to formula one will continue to force me to watch dull races.

Sometimes I can’t switch off, but I want to.

F1 was not like this a few years ago, even during the days of domination.

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03-27-2017, 10:51 PM
Post: #18
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-27-2017 10:26 AM)chemics Wrote:  noise is wasted energy.

so true. those audi lmp1 diesels that dominated for so long were quieter than their aero wake. high performance isn't showy.
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03-27-2017, 11:52 PM
Post: #19
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-27-2017 10:26 AM)chemics Wrote:  so the masses called for the greatness of the 90's/early 2000's...we got faster cars and Ferrari won in a boring race. Amazing what rose tinted glasses do when we look back.

Perhaps all those years listening to the loud engines is the reason the old school can't hear the new engines....if F1 is the pinnacle it can't be loud like that, noise is wasted energy.

It will be interesting to see how Liberty go about attracting a new generation of F1 fans, I suspect they may have to sacrifice some of the older ones to achieve it. The noise will never be socially acceptable again, so achieving something to draw fans in will be an interesting challenge. I'm sure the other sub-classes will go hybrid in due course as the tech filters down to a more acceptable cost.

Even back when Schumi/Ferrari was dominating F1, it was exciting and interesting because:

1. There were tire wars.
2. Refueling was allowed
3. Multiple pit stops
4. All of the above meant that you really couldn't tell who had the fastest car until the race.

Maybe the Michelins had bigger sweet spot but Bridgestone lasted longer.
Some teams started the race with less than full tank to get out ahead.
2,3,4 and even 5 pit-stop strategy might have been the optimum.

All these things happening meant that people were glued to the tv, and the live timing and the talking heads on tv to figure out what's going on.

In Australian GP this year, everyone pitted once and cruised to finish.
It really was a high speed parade.

Every time my tv announcers got excited noting that Bottas was closing in on Hamilton or Max on Raikkonen, I'm like so what? it doesn't matter if you had 1 sec lead or 10 sec lead. There is no passing.

I'm starting to ramble so I'll stop. If this continues, I'm going to pass on F1 for another year. Sad thing is that once you stop watching, it's easy to not care.

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03-28-2017, 03:10 AM
Post: #20
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-26-2017 09:02 AM)Yaaay Wrote:  
(03-26-2017 04:03 AM)cozmoose Wrote:  Quite possibly the most boring F1 race I've ever seen.

+1

Possibly not the most boring but definately in the top 10
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03-28-2017, 03:35 AM
Post: #21
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-27-2017 07:09 PM)leonbray Wrote:  ... the volume isn't the issue, the sound is. A naturally aspirated hybrid like a LaFerrari, has a far more engaging sound than the current F1 V6 turbos. Even twin turbo V6's have a better exhaust note.

In the same way you're 18 year old neighbours first car fitted with a 14" subwoofer makes it audible from a mile away but will never make it sound like the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.

All the comments relating to noise is only applicable to those who attend races. At home, you can do what you like with the LOUD button 🏁🏎️

Not bad for a No. 2 Driver
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03-28-2017, 08:46 AM
Post: #22
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-27-2017 07:09 PM)leonbray Wrote:  
(03-27-2017 10:26 AM)chemics Wrote:  so the masses called for the greatness of the 90's/early 2000's...we got faster cars and Ferrari won in a boring race. Amazing what rose tinted glasses do when we look back.

Perhaps all those years listening to the loud engines is the reason the old school can't hear the new engines....if F1 is the pinnacle it can't be loud like that, noise is wasted energy.

It will be interesting to see how Liberty go about attracting a new generation of F1 fans, I suspect they may have to sacrifice some of the older ones to achieve it. The noise will never be socially acceptable again, so achieving something to draw fans in will be an interesting challenge. I'm sure the other sub-classes will go hybrid in due course as the tech filters down to a more acceptable cost.


... the volume isn't the issue, the sound is. A naturally aspirated hybrid like a LaFerrari, has a far more engaging sound than the current F1 V6 turbos. Even twin turbo V6's have a better exhaust note.

The relevancy of turbo engines for road cars is waning as manufacturers find that turbos drink more fuel when pushed.

Turbo's are becoming irrelevant in road cars?! Really?

It's becoming increasingly hard to find a car without a smaller turbo engine when I look around. I believe Diesel will be dead in 10 years or less but it's hard to see the Turbo going anywhere given the current trends, but maybe I'm missing something. While they are thirsty when pushed they are frugal when not, so they get great test figures for official ratings and fleet CO2 figures.

If the sound is more important than the volume, why does everyone complain about feeling the noise, or not hearing it from 10 miles away, or being able to have a conversation while cars are running? All of those things are volume specific. Genuinely interested. I understand the volume making a big impression at the track, even if it doesn't bother me personally, but it seems like I hear complaints about one thing then people contradicting themselves about what the real problem is.
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03-28-2017, 09:04 AM
Post: #23
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-28-2017 08:46 AM)chemics Wrote:  
(03-27-2017 07:09 PM)leonbray Wrote:  
(03-27-2017 10:26 AM)chemics Wrote:  so the masses called for the greatness of the 90's/early 2000's...we got faster cars and Ferrari won in a boring race. Amazing what rose tinted glasses do when we look back.

Perhaps all those years listening to the loud engines is the reason the old school can't hear the new engines....if F1 is the pinnacle it can't be loud like that, noise is wasted energy.

It will be interesting to see how Liberty go about attracting a new generation of F1 fans, I suspect they may have to sacrifice some of the older ones to achieve it. The noise will never be socially acceptable again, so achieving something to draw fans in will be an interesting challenge. I'm sure the other sub-classes will go hybrid in due course as the tech filters down to a more acceptable cost.


... the volume isn't the issue, the sound is. A naturally aspirated hybrid like a LaFerrari, has a far more engaging sound than the current F1 V6 turbos. Even twin turbo V6's have a better exhaust note.

The relevancy of turbo engines for road cars is waning as manufacturers find that turbos drink more fuel when pushed.

Turbo's are becoming irrelevant in road cars?! Really?

It's becoming increasingly hard to find a car without a smaller turbo engine when I look around. I believe Diesel will be dead in 10 years or less but it's hard to see the Turbo going anywhere given the current trends, but maybe I'm missing something. While they are thirsty when pushed they are frugal when not, so they get great test figures for official ratings and fleet CO2 figures.

If the sound is more important than the volume, why does everyone complain about feeling the noise, or not hearing it from 10 miles away, or being able to have a conversation while cars are running? All of those things are volume specific. Genuinely interested. I understand the volume making a big impression at the track, even if it doesn't bother me personally, but it seems like I hear complaints about one thing then people contradicting themselves about what the real problem is.

The manufacturers are finding that they can't meet the new fuel consumption regulations with turbos and are moving back to larger normally aspirated engines with electric power to get them moving off the line (mainly 48 volt in-line motors). There was a discussion with the engine manufacturers and Wards on Autoline Network several weeks ago where they outlined the fuel consumption issues associated with turbocharged engines, when they are under load and the movement away from small capacity turboed engines.

Last time I checked, sound is a combination of volume and pitch. As an example

A sports car race provides the ability to differentiate between engines because of the sound the make. F1 engines make a drone, alot like a Mercedes GT car. A ferrari GT car makes an entrely different sound. Both engines in competition guise in Australia, have a maximum decibel limit. But you can certainly tell from the sound if a Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin or AMG is going by

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03-28-2017, 09:21 AM
Post: #24
RE: Australian GP 2017
(03-28-2017 09:04 AM)leonbray Wrote:  The manufacturers are finding that they can't meet the new fuel consumption regulations with turbos and are moving back to larger normally aspirated engines with electric power to get them moving off the line (mainly 48 volt in-line motors). There was a discussion with the engine manufacturers and Wards on Autoline Network several weeks ago where they outlined the fuel consumption issues associated with turbocharged engines, when they are under load and the movement away from small capacity turboed engines.

Last time I checked, sound is a combination of volume and pitch. As an example

A sports car race provides the ability to differentiate between engines because of the sound the make. F1 engines make a drone, alot like a Mercedes GT car. A ferrari GT car makes an entrely different sound. Both engines in competition guise in Australia, have a maximum decibel limit. But you can certainly tell from the sound if a Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin or AMG is going by

Interesting, the Americans will love that! I guess my twin turbo 3.5V6 truck will become obsolete before I know it! Although I get 2L/100km less than the 5L V8 and have a higher tow capacity.

Without F1 opening up the regs like endurance racing we're unlikely to get huge variation in engine pitch between manufacturers. I'd find it far more interesting if they just let them have an amount of fuel and a maximum battery capacity and left them to get on with it.
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03-29-2017, 05:13 PM
Post: #25
RE: Australian GP 2017
Well that was predictable. SO frustrating that they did the right thing for mechanical grip and then threw it all in the toilet by increasing the aero grip so much.

I'm torn between 1 pitstop races and tires they can actually push. What's the solution? I'm thinking you have to run both tire compounds but the one you start on doesn't count. Basically mandate a 2 stop minimum.

Ideally you make tires that perform very close to new and then fall off a cliff - but we tried that and it didn't work - we ended up with drivers nursing tires way too much IMO.

I do like the idea of simply giving them a set amount of fuel and max battery capacity, but don't you just blow the cost model all to pieces if you do that?

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