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50 words on the Belgian GP
08-28-2016, 09:25 AM
Post: #1
50 words on the Belgian GP
Leave your insights here for the podcast.
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08-28-2016, 11:56 AM
Post: #2
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
The intermission is over and the second half of the season is underway. An exciting overture with Kevin Magnussen's colossal accident coming out of Eau Rouge the major turning point of the Grand Prix.

Nico checks another box but his post race demeanor suggests that it was no great achievement owing to the fact that Lewis started 21st.

There may have been no rain in Spa, but secretly, it will be raining inside Nico's overalls as he realizes that you just can't keep a good man down. On to the House of Ascari.

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08-28-2016, 02:24 PM
Post: #3
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
This booing is getting ridiculous and what is worse is it would seem to be British Hamilton fans. It isn't Motorsport at all. He did nothing wrong but his team mate got away with 3 new engines in one race. That's out of the proper allocation of 5 for the whole season. The way they worked the system to be handed this disproportionately tiny penalty is completely against the spirit of the regulation, it's cheating.

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08-28-2016, 05:59 PM
Post: #4
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
LCH gets on the podium after starting from the back and Rosberg gets to win instead.
But that's not the big news.

The big news involves champagne, Webbo and a shoe. An Australian thing.
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08-29-2016, 12:09 AM
Post: #5
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
Hamilton and Alonso displayed their talents as outstanding drivers. Max stays aggressive, and that Red Bull mojo is strong. A great race on a great track.

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Go FERRARI !..... Go HAAS !
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08-29-2016, 01:56 PM
Post: #6
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
Eau Rouge...Eau no!!!!

::crash::

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08-30-2016, 12:39 PM
Post: #7
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
(08-28-2016 02:24 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  ...completely against the spirit of the regulation, it's cheating.

Where was this during the double-diffuser debacle?

(though I agree about the engine allocation)

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08-31-2016, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 08-31-2016 01:14 PM by chemics.)
Post: #8
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
(08-28-2016 02:24 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  This booing is getting ridiculous and what is worse is it would seem to be British Hamilton fans. It isn't Motorsport at all. He did nothing wrong but his team mate got away with 3 new engines in one race. That's out of the proper allocation of 5 for the whole season. The way they worked the system to be handed this disproportionately tiny penalty is completely against the spirit of the regulation, it's cheating.

I think Adrian Newey said once that there is no spirit of the rules, just the black and white that is written down (or something like that). Clearly Mercedes found a loophole, but I bet any other team would have used it if they spotted it and were in the same position.
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08-31-2016, 11:41 PM
Post: #9
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
it's disingenuous for him (or anyone who understands the rules) to say there isn't a clear intent to the rules. the fia has a pretty reliable track record of not enforcing the intent of the rule, so i think it's perfectly legitimate to say only the exact wording matters, but that doesn't mean the intent behind the rule doesn't exist.

a much more interesting debate is whether it would be better if they did enforce the intent of the rules. they could issue clear (but not minutely specific) rules about what they want, and give some specific examples with the qualifier that they are not exhaustive, and have a panel of stewards who judge issues of legality as they arise at scrutineering. it would be frustratingly opaque, but it also would prevent the boring racing that comes from one team finding a vital loophole. i think the rabble would like it, and probably also more of the serious fans than would admit it.
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09-01-2016, 01:04 PM
Post: #10
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
All they have to do is apply the 55 grid place penalty so it means something, so if he quailed on pole the maximum he can take is 21 places, that leaves 34 places to serve, so at the next race if he qualifies on pole he takes another 21 then the next race he has 13.

The idea it all went makes a mockery of an accumulative penalty, so one engine is 10 places, the second 10 more. He only got penalised one engine and got two free.

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09-02-2016, 12:40 AM
Post: #11
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
how about instead of a grid penalty (which often evaporates by turn 1 and, as yaaay astutely points out, sometimes even before that) they start the race at the end of pit lane with a one minute hold?
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09-06-2016, 03:06 PM
Post: #12
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
(08-31-2016 11:41 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  it's disingenuous for him (or anyone who understands the rules) to say there isn't a clear intent to the rules. the fia has a pretty reliable track record of not enforcing the intent of the rule, so i think it's perfectly legitimate to say only the exact wording matters, but that doesn't mean the intent behind the rule doesn't exist.

a much more interesting debate is whether it would be better if they did enforce the intent of the rules. they could issue clear (but not minutely specific) rules about what they want, and give some specific examples with the qualifier that they are not exhaustive, and have a panel of stewards who judge issues of legality as they arise at scrutineering. it would be frustratingly opaque, but it also would prevent the boring racing that comes from one team finding a vital loophole. i think the rabble would like it, and probably also more of the serious fans than would admit it.

I like the idea of that, in theory they take their ideas to someone at the FIA (Charlie Whiting?) to have them confirmed as legal already, but presumably there would be too much lawyering with an opaque set of rules where they come up with ideas and then go see if it's within the spirit of the rules regardless of the fact it's within the wording of the rules. That gets expensive if you get a lot if ideas thrown out.

I'd much sooner see a more open rule book and let them have at it, but that has it's own issues with budgets and the big teams being able to spend their way to victory.
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09-07-2016, 01:02 AM
Post: #13
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
lawyering can always be controlled by procedural limits. for example, you could say that a team can only pre-clear one part/section of the car per race. or you could say that a team can only revert to a legal part without penalty after a part fails scrutineering once per weekend. then teams are forced to be more strategic about how far to push the envelope and how often to do it and where on the car to do it. and also when to wait for another team to determine the boundary.

i prefer open rules as well, but i don't mind a small field of manufacturer teams leaving the rest of the field in the dust. most people value parity more than i do, and parity requires cost control.
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09-07-2016, 12:38 PM
Post: #14
RE: 50 words on the Belgian GP
(09-07-2016 01:02 AM)frankdouglason Wrote:  lawyering can always be controlled by procedural limits. for example, you could say that a team can only pre-clear one part/section of the car per race. or you could say that a team can only revert to a legal part without penalty after a part fails scrutineering once per weekend. then teams are forced to be more strategic about how far to push the envelope and how often to do it and where on the car to do it. and also when to wait for another team to determine the boundary.

i prefer open rules as well, but i don't mind a small field of manufacturer teams leaving the rest of the field in the dust. most people value parity more than i do, and parity requires cost control.

A stable rule book would be a good start regardless of complications. The grid is naturally closer in times of stability where outright spending is less of a factor in getting ahead and the top teams are only left to chase marginal gains.
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