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Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
03-18-2014, 06:54 AM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2014 06:55 AM by leonbray.)
Post: #26
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
Great vids

The Cosworth has a similar tone to the V6 F1 cars but the twin pipes give it a distinct sound rather than a drone

Goodwood is on my bucket list. Just need to sell two cars with noisy V8 engines

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03-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Post: #27
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
(03-17-2014 06:06 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  


Half the crowd are wearing ear defenders in 2013 to stop a large portion of the noise, the rest are probably receiving permanent ear damage.
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03-18-2014, 08:47 AM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2014 08:51 AM by leonbray.)
Post: #28
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"




this was the alternative over the weekend - note the onboard advertising in the redbull car

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03-18-2014, 08:51 AM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2014 08:55 AM by chemics.)
Post: #29
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
(03-18-2014 08:47 AM)leonbray Wrote:  



this was the alternative over the weekend

Listening to it on my laptop I hear the commentators and lots of transmission whine on the in-car, but the engine noise is pretty quiet for me and mostly drowned out by the commentators.

I just don't see how the noise ruins the racing to such a degree that so many people are saying everything else is now better. If noise is all that matters you can probably download a V12 sound track on your MP3 player and turn the volume up loud enough to hurt while you watch the race. I get how some people found it better with a V12 sound, just not to the extent that there have been complaints.
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03-18-2014, 09:50 AM
Post: #30
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
I don't think it is the noise but the tone of the exhaust - the sound. The new cars sound a bit like a tuner car with a fart can. If the pitch was higher I don't think there would be any complaints

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03-18-2014, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2014 10:58 AM by Original JB.)
Post: #31
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
I posted the article, not because I agreed with the AGP Chairman's opinion, but because I thought it was a crock. The current contract expires next year. The track is in the heart of a mostly residential area that still has a strong anti-motorsport support network (named "Save Albert Park"). I would have thought diminished noise would have been exactly what local organisers would have preferred. All of this is smoke and mirrors for future negotiations and to distract the detractors.

Regarding the technology, it bothers me to some extent that the drivers don't go out and race in the pure sense of drive hard, drive fast. The management of tyres has arguably affected the best of battles. Same argument for DRS. Now the fuel issue means different cars could be on different strategies of a 4sec/lap difference (according to driver quotes prior to the event.)

More than even, the sport is a whole of team sport - the strategists are far more involved. There has always been a strategy, but now it is at an entirely new level.

As I say, it's all arguable. The best drivers are driving with precision to manage tyres, fuel and times in a way that's never happened before. I guess that is the current form of innovation.

One race does not make a season. I'm keen to see what the rest of the year delivers.

I just watched the 2013 -v- 2014 video. It brought back the pain of my uncovered ears in previous years when I dared to see how loud the cars were. The local commentary has been broadcast over a local FM radio network. This year, I shared a pair of earbud style headphones with my companion, the volume set to the middle. My unprotected ear was not irritated, nor was the sound of the commentary drowned in the plugged ear. In previous years, I used both earbuds to block the noise as much as for the commentary. The radio in those years was turned up to the maximum volume (hello ear damage) and it was barely audible.

I really think after this year, those returning to the event will not be too disappointed about the relative peace.

The sound comparison in the video is accurate. Also accurate is all that turbo noise that you can hear because of the quieter engines, sorry "power unit."


Also, the best speed in FP was 319km/h = 199mph. It bettered last years best speed. So they're quick in a straight line.

Not bad for a No. 2 Driver
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03-18-2014, 02:11 PM
Post: #32
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
BTW if you want just plain serious loud in a road racing car, the old IMSA GTP Mazdas were something else. They deliverately aimed their exhaust to the inside of the track since the sound measuring equipment was on the outside of the track.

Funny.. the folks I know who dislike the 2014 sounds are all racers...

On the other hand.. I do remember the gorgeous sound of the Ligier-Matra 12 cylinder engine at Watkins Glen in 1976. You knew it was coming without even seeing it.

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03-18-2014, 03:37 PM
Post: #33
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
(03-18-2014 02:11 PM)monzagorilla Wrote:  Funny.. the folks I know who dislike the 2014 sounds are all racers...

That's OK then, the non-racers out number them 1,000,000 to 1.
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03-18-2014, 07:09 PM
Post: #34
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
Live, these cars are plenty loud. Maybe not wailing like a banshee loud of recent years, but there's no way they can be mistaken for anything else then formula ones.
recording devices, particularly amateur ones, have noise reduction, audio limiters, compression whatevers, and are not reliable estimators of noise levels.

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03-29-2014, 07:09 PM
Post: #35
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
imagine if formula 1 cars sounded like this:





sounds good to me.
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03-29-2014, 07:16 PM
Post: #36
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
They sound like sports cars (unsurprisingly). F1 cars should sound more like motorcycles, which they do now. Less like model aeroplanes.

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03-29-2014, 08:06 PM (This post was last modified: 03-29-2014 08:10 PM by frankdouglason.)
Post: #37
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
why should f1 cars sound like motorcycles? that's a new one for me.

also, which kind of motorcycle? motorcycles make a pretty wide spectrum of noises.
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03-30-2014, 04:34 AM
Post: #38
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
"more like", a low throaty growl wouldn't suit. Bikes have lots of close ratio gears so you have rapid gear changes .

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04-03-2014, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2014 03:07 PM by chemics.)
Post: #39
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
like this...but quieter Wink



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04-03-2014, 06:49 PM
Post: #40
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
The engineers are saying they can't change the sound because of the regulations. I've read the regulations and it doesn't say you can't weld a whistle inside the exhaust

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04-03-2014, 07:44 PM
Post: #41
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
they're not going to do anything to the exhausts that has the slightest, most infinitesimal impact on performance. unless they're achieving an aerodynamic advantage, which they're forbidden from doing, they want them straight and smooth.
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04-08-2014, 01:23 PM
Post: #42
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
F1 announces it is going to do something to make the exhausts louder:

Apr.7 (GMM) F1 will push ahead with trying to make the sport's new turbo V6 engines louder.

In an interview with the British broadcaster Sky on Sunday, chief executive Bernie Ecclestone was told by former driver Martin Brundle that changing the sound would surely require a total engine "redesign".

But Ecclestone hit back: "The noise comes from where?

"All the air exits in the end out of what we call the exhaust pipe. So they can maybe do something there to make it sound a lot better," he revealed.

Also on Sunday in Bahrain, McLaren supremo Ron Dennis rebuked world champion Sebastian Vettel for being "disrespectful" when recently he described the sound of 2014 as "s***".

But that doesn't mean the teams are necessarily opposed to change, he added.

"The fact the cars aren't a bit (more) noisy just doesn't matter," Dennis told Brundle on the grid, as he defended the revolutionarily modern new rules, and hit back at the outspoken critics.


"We can fix that (the sound) easily, but what we should be focused on is what's good for the generations to come."

FIA president Jean Todt on Sunday revealed that the sound 'fix' will begin shortly.

A working group will be set up to 'explore ways to improve the turbo noise', according to the Telegraph correspondent Daniel Johnson.

"Todt told reporters that possible solutions to the quieter sound will be tested after the race in Barcelona next month," he added.


motorsport.com

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04-08-2014, 01:45 PM
Post: #43
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
Red Bull have a solution, let them burn more fuel. In all seriousness, this may actually help if it allowed the teams to rev the cars closer to the 15k limit. Although it may mean more potential for fuel saving later in the race if a team decides to use extra fuel to overtake. It would certainly be easier to police than the ever failing flow meters.

It's good to know Bernie has the engineering knowledge to tell us it's easy to fix though.

Will the volume change the overall noise? I can't see teams engineering a solution that is specifically designed to make the actual sound appealing even if they make the current sound louder. In which case, the TV crews can fix the problem by picking it up better. I thought it sounded better in Bahrain anyway, so they've probably already started working on the TV side of it.
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04-08-2014, 02:57 PM
Post: #44
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
this is the most wag the dog nonsense i've ever seen in motorsport. if anyone ever doubted that the rabble sees f1 as reality tv and not sporting competition, this ridiculous non-controversy is the proof.
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04-08-2014, 05:06 PM
Post: #45
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
Redbull and Renault messed with the sensors. Changed the connectors.

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04-08-2014, 05:52 PM
Post: #46
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
As they frigged about with tyre pressures and front-rear of the tyres last season...

They've tried to dump on the FIA and the sensor manufacturer in the same way they succeeded with Pirelli, but I think they've taken on a more powerful enemy this time

Regards,
Mark

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[Nigel Roebuck, writing of Bruce McLaren]

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04-08-2014, 08:58 PM
Post: #47
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
(04-08-2014 01:45 PM)chemics Wrote:  Red Bull have a solution, let them burn more fuel. In all seriousness, this may actually help if it allowed the teams to rev the cars closer to the 15k limit. Although it may mean more potential for fuel saving later in the race if a team decides to use extra fuel to overtake. It would certainly be easier to police than the ever failing flow meters.

It's good to know Bernie has the engineering knowledge to tell us it's easy to fix though.

Will the volume change the overall noise? I can't see teams engineering a solution that is specifically designed to make the actual sound appealing even if they make the current sound louder. In which case, the TV crews can fix the problem by picking it up better. I thought it sounded better in Bahrain anyway, so they've probably already started working on the TV side of it.

I'd like to see them lift the maximum fuel flow rate to allow the cars to reach the 15000rpm maximum but keep the tank capacity at 100kg. That way the driver can chose to use the extra available revs and the sound will change

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04-08-2014, 11:09 PM
Post: #48
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
(04-08-2014 08:58 PM)leonbray Wrote:  I'd like to see them lift the maximum fuel flow rate to allow the cars to reach the 15000rpm maximum but keep the tank capacity at 100kg. That way the driver can chose to use the extra available revs and the sound will change

the two arguments i've heard against this are 1) this will lead to drivers using lots of fuel to get the lead early, so they can manage the race from the front (since overtaking uses tons of fuel), and will result in a very slow procession after that, and 2) should anyone not adopt the strategy above, it would create such a drastic contrast of pace as to constitute a safety concern. personally, i think the latter argument is hogwash both because there's no reason f1 drivers can't handle big gaps in pace (sportscar drivers do just fine) and also because after a race or two of experimentation, everyone would adopt the same strategy.

to me, it seems crazy to want to go back to a 10 lap dash followed by a 90 minute parade, but i'm done underestimating how much everyone will prioritize the exhaust sound over literally everything else in f1.
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04-09-2014, 04:27 AM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2014 04:28 AM by Miguel.)
Post: #49
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
good grief, just add a microphone, an amplifier and a couple of loudspeakers, to the end of the exhaust pipe and be done with this idiotic issue.

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04-09-2014, 08:30 AM
Post: #50
RE: Quiet engines a "breach of contract"
(04-09-2014 04:27 AM)Miguel Wrote:  good grief, just add a microphone, an amplifier and a couple of loudspeakers, to the end of the exhaust pipe and be done with this idiotic issue.

I think you could get most of the way there at minimal cost and with nothing to go wrong by mandating the size and profile of the last 8-10" or so of the exhaust pipe. It just needs a megaphone profile, maybe also with an expansion soundbox upstream to achieve a nice resonance. As I pointed out before, aftermarket exhaust manufacturers for cars and bikes have been doing this for 50 years!

I believe there will in fact be a risk of making too much noise, even with the reduced exhaust gas speed of the turbos and HRS.

Also, for sure, the engine manufacturers will whinge that there's too much/little back pressure or whatever for their system, so you'll need to allow them a couple of months to adapt and bring some altered homologation bids to the FIA. They'll be bound to try to cheat and package this in with some unrelated performance enhancing changes, so weed those out and, after that, tuff.

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Mark

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