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2014 Australian Grand Prix
03-19-2014, 03:53 AM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 04:04 AM by Original JB.)
Post: #51
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
I don't know of other Aussies "moaning about" the noise. It seems a lot of people on various sites are complaining; people who aren't in Australia. Unless you have experienced the noise personally, why can't volume control on their TV fix the sound?

Personally, I don't care. It's a very unique sound. I'd rather hear tyres fighting for grip than being unable to distinguish any form of sound.





A feel good story about the Magnussens

http://www.speedcafe.com/2014/03/16/magn...gp-podium/

Jan Magnussen aims not to miss another grand prix after his son, Kevin Magnussen’s stunning Formula 1 debut in the Rolex Australian Grand Prix.

Magnussen senior missed the landmark event owing to his commitments in the Sebring 12 Hour sports car race with Kevin leaping into third position for McLaren, the team his dad raced for in the 1990’s.

Speaking exclusively to Speedcafe.com, Magnussen explained how his son has become one of the hottest properties in grand prix racing after the 21-year-old earned his place in the top open wheel class after claiming the Renault 3.5 Series last season.

“It tried not to have any expectations for today. I had a dream that this would happen … a podium would be out of this world,” Magnussen, who raced for McLaren and Stewart, told Speedcafe.com

“This was way more than anyone could have hoped for.

“When we first started driving karts with Kevin this was just some crazy dream. One day maybe he’d be in F1. To see him today on the podium was just unbelievable.

“I can’t even put it into words how I’m feeling. It’s fantastic and he just keeps surprising me.”

“He was good immediately but what has been the most impressive is how he has developed and how he keeps getting better and how he keeps finding ways to become better.

“For the last couple of years he has been extremely fast.
photo1 344x258 Jan Magnussen dreamt son would podium at AGP

Jan Magnussen watching his son Kevin race to a podium on television while on sportscar duty at Sebring 12 Hours

“The biggest change is how he is using his head and how he is making things happen.

“It’s crazy, it’s fantastic.

“It was not good. I don’t want to do that too often. But it was good to share it here with friends and family.”

Magnussen senior said he would definitely make the trip to Malaysia for the second round of the F1 world championship in two weeks

“But I’m going to Malaysia that is for sure. I just don’t want to miss Kevin’s race again.”

While Jan was overjoyed at the result, Kevin was in a state of disbelief in regard to the enormity of what he achieved in his maiden F1 race.

The 21-year-old rookie paid tribute to the McLaren team for their patience in helping him settle into the fold of one of the sport’s giants.

“I just can’t believe it,” Magnussen jnr said in the post race press conference.

“Its not a win but it definitely feels like one.

“The team is coming off a difficult season and they really wanted to come back. They worked soo hard over the winter and they were working with a rookie as well who hasn’t got any experience.

“Its been tough for them for sure. They have made me feel really at home and comfortable with everything. I couldn’t have asked for more.”

Not bad for a No. 2 Driver
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03-19-2014, 08:06 AM
Post: #52
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-19-2014 03:53 AM)Original JB Wrote:  I don't know of other Aussies "moaning about" the noise. It seems a lot of people on various sites are complaining; people who aren't in Australia. Unless you have experienced the noise personally, why can't volume control on their TV fix the sound?

Personally, I don't care. It's a very unique sound. I'd rather hear tyres fighting for grip than being unable to distinguish any form of sound.

I'm sure they can soon fix the TV noise now they've had a race to figure out what they are working with and how best to capture it. I agree that I liked being able to hear things like the tyres fighting for grip and the Turbo whistle. Hearing the tyres squealing as the car left a pit stop seemed to give a better impression of them being on the limit than last year when all you heard was a constant engine screaming noise.
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03-19-2014, 08:22 AM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 08:26 AM by Original JB.)
Post: #53
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
Here's a much more interesting piece about the noise. (But if the argument about turbo's converting the sound to energy, why were the 1.5T the loudest of all?)

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/...eted-noise

Not bad for a No. 2 Driver
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03-19-2014, 12:25 PM
Post: #54
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
I'm no mechanical engineer, but in Jerez it seemed pretty clear to me that one of the major elements in volume drop was the reduction in max rev.

Ad Astra Per Audacia
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03-19-2014, 12:41 PM
Post: #55
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-19-2014 12:25 PM)Miguel Wrote:  I'm no mechanical engineer, but in Jerez it seemed pretty clear to me that one of the major elements in volume drop was the reduction in max rev.

I think someone commented during the race they they were changing up at 11,500 rather than the 15,000 limit. I wonder if this was fuel saving, something to do with this track specifically, or just because of the huge torque levels the new cars have. It will be interesting to see if they do this everywhere or just specific tracks.
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03-19-2014, 02:04 PM
Post: #56
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
You can change the character of the noise enormously by tuning the exhaust.

Sure, ultimate loudness may not be there, but it would be possible to make a very exciting and attractive sound if they turned their minds to it (i.e. it would have to be made in the power unit manufacturers' interests in some way to do this).

Regards,
Mark

"A man who took simple pleasure in making things work properly"
[Nigel Roebuck, writing of Bruce McLaren]

"Bruce McLaren was the best person I ever worked for. He was amazing"
[Howden Ganley, 12th September 2009]
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03-19-2014, 02:25 PM
Post: #57
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-19-2014 02:04 PM)drmarkf Wrote:  You can change the character of the noise enormously by tuning the exhaust.

Sure, ultimate loudness may not be there, but it would be possible to make a very exciting and attractive sound if they turned their minds to it (i.e. it would have to be made in the power unit manufacturers' interests in some way to do this).

I presume it won't be a quick fix though as redesigning the exhaust systems won't be cheap and it probably isn't priority number 1 for power unit producers or teams right now, especially Renault.

They certainly won't want to do anything that costs them any hp. Although they may just have a couple of suggestions that get them some more while they do it...for the good of the fans of course.
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03-19-2014, 03:10 PM
Post: #58
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-19-2014 12:41 PM)chemics Wrote:  
(03-19-2014 12:25 PM)Miguel Wrote:  I'm no mechanical engineer, but in Jerez it seemed pretty clear to me that one of the major elements in volume drop was the reduction in max rev.

I think someone commented during the race they they were changing up at 11,500 rather than the 15,000 limit. I wonder if this was fuel saving, something to do with this track specifically, or just because of the huge torque levels the new cars have. It will be interesting to see if they do this everywhere or just specific tracks.

It's a bit of both.

Fuel savings - These turbo engines have a much more usable power band at lower revs. Therefore they don't need to wring them out to screaming bonkers levels of revs. To do that would just be wasting fuel. (however I read that the Mercedes units are already efficient enough that they'll have no fuel worries at any of the tracks - would be great to see more rev counters onscreen to compare cars in future races)
.
Track - They were short shifting or not downshifting as much in many turns to avoid wheel spin. Some of this would be linked to the low grip nature of Albert Park (plus rain Saturday night). Similarly, the super soft tires would help.

Will we see more aggression as (1) the car setups evolve for more traction, (2) the power unit efficiency increases making fuel saving less important, (3) we go to higher grip surfaces/tracks with super softs?

Also there's the issue of the same gear ratios being used at every race this year. How many revs will the cars be pulling down the proper straights in Sepang, Shanghai, Montreal, Monza, etc. I guess we'll find out in 10 days time ...
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03-19-2014, 04:40 PM
Post: #59
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
they're not going to waste time tuning their exhaust note any more than they wasted time hiding the step nose last year.
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03-20-2014, 07:47 PM
Post: #60
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-19-2014 03:10 PM)RBoulanger Wrote:  
(03-19-2014 12:41 PM)chemics Wrote:  
(03-19-2014 12:25 PM)Miguel Wrote:  I'm no mechanical engineer, but in Jerez it seemed pretty clear to me that one of the major elements in volume drop was the reduction in max rev.

I think someone commented during the race they they were changing up at 11,500 rather than the 15,000 limit. I wonder if this was fuel saving, something to do with this track specifically, or just because of the huge torque levels the new cars have. It will be interesting to see if they do this everywhere or just specific tracks.

It's a bit of both.

Fuel savings - These turbo engines have a much more usable power band at lower revs. Therefore they don't need to wring them out to screaming bonkers levels of revs. To do that would just be wasting fuel. (however I read that the Mercedes units are already efficient enough that they'll have no fuel worries at any of the tracks - would be great to see more rev counters onscreen to compare cars in future races)

I tread elsewhere that the fuel flow of 100kg/hour is the reason why no one used the allowable 15,000 rpm. At high revs the engine would have to run too lean. The flow limit isn't going to be removed any time soon because the engines and their energy saving accessories have been designed around it.
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03-20-2014, 08:23 PM (This post was last modified: 03-20-2014 08:25 PM by leonbray.)
Post: #61
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-19-2014 04:40 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  they're not going to waste time tuning their exhaust note any more than they wasted time hiding the step nose last year.

We need to get a sound engineer involved. That way they can tune each engine to a different scale and when you get a Mercedes racing a Ferrari, racing a Renault you could have a 3 part harmony. Where is Horatio Pagani when you need him

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03-20-2014, 08:59 PM
Post: #62
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-20-2014 08:23 PM)leonbray Wrote:  
(03-19-2014 04:40 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  they're not going to waste time tuning their exhaust note any more than they wasted time hiding the step nose last year.

We need to get a sound engineer involved. That way they can tune each engine to a different scale and when you get a Mercedes racing a Ferrari, racing a Renault you could have a 3 part harmony. Where is Horatio Pagani when you need him

this is the best idea i've heard in a while. it would make me care about the sound.
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03-21-2014, 12:08 AM
Post: #63
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
This is what a turbo V6 should sound like




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03-21-2014, 01:47 PM
Post: #64
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
Right on brother Cool

Regards,
Mark

"A man who took simple pleasure in making things work properly"
[Nigel Roebuck, writing of Bruce McLaren]

"Bruce McLaren was the best person I ever worked for. He was amazing"
[Howden Ganley, 12th September 2009]
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03-21-2014, 02:34 PM
Post: #65
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-21-2014 12:08 AM)leonbray Wrote:  This is what a turbo V6 should sound like




A proper steering wheel? A real revcounter? Driver changing gear using an actual gear lever? We've come a long way.
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03-21-2014, 04:30 PM
Post: #66
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-21-2014 02:34 PM)Cé hé sin Wrote:  A proper steering wheel? A real revcounter? Driver changing gear using an actual gear lever? We've come a long way.

backwards

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03-21-2014, 04:35 PM
Post: #67
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
how do you get into f1 in the first place if you're that hostile toward technology?
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03-22-2014, 02:21 PM
Post: #68
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-21-2014 04:35 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  how do you get into f1 in the first place if you're that hostile toward technology?
Is it therefore hostile to embrace the skill of the bloody red baron over a drone?

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03-22-2014, 02:42 PM
Post: #69
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
i have no issue with people who prefer driver skill to technological achievement. it's not what floats my boat, but i can see the appeal. my confusion is why such people would ever start following f1 instead of something like touring cars or rally, which are much more driver-centric. f1 has never been about the drivers. as far back as ascari, a driver's success has been more about finding his way into the best car and not getting killed than it's about being the best driver. f1 has always been about engineering, and even as they try to retard the advancement in some areas, that pressure to build a better car just moves into other areas. if you start following f1 and wish for no technological change, you'd be lucky to be happy for three years. then the rest of your life you'll be whinging about how it used to be. just watch a different series.
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03-22-2014, 03:03 PM
Post: #70
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
Perhaps that is why YOU got into F1 frank, but you can't possibly know why everyone else follows F1. It may be for reasons other than your own. Take the Hunt film for instance...did anyone other than you only watch it for the latent technology of the day? F1 has more to offer than technology.

When you watch that Ayrton (belated birthday) video, are you only thinking of the technology? I'm thinking this driver is fantastic!

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03-22-2014, 04:52 PM
Post: #71
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
OK, I shall explain my throw away "backwards" comment. I am not hostile towards technological improvement - quite the opposite, it is what makes F1 different and quite probably unique.

There has always been technology driving F1, what I think is backwards is the direction the technology is, especially when it comes to aero and not mechanical bits.

What I also think is backward is the lack of visibility of the tech development and the ever tightening rule book (which is of course necessary).

For me, the most significant, brilliant technical advancements in F1 came with cars like the Lotus 49, The BT46, the Tyrrell P34, huge jumps. Now a days it's ittty bitty stuff which none of us can see. The last significant innovation I can think of was the double diffuser and few understood it or could see it.

Thank god for these new engines, fantastic technology which is really interesting to try and understand and follow, trouble is, the three engine manufacturers won't tell us what is happening and the FIA will ensure that if anyone gets a real advantage it is muted out. That is backwards.

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03-23-2014, 01:42 AM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2014 01:43 AM by frankdouglason.)
Post: #72
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
(03-22-2014 04:52 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  What I also think is backward is the lack of visibility of the tech development

visibility... i've been hearing that a lot lately. "the fans can't see the technology anymore." i don't understand this. when could we see the technology? i'm especially baffled by you then adding that you don't like how aero is the focus instead of mechanical, when i see the aero a lot better than i see the mechanical. i mean, the aero is on the outside and the mechanical is on the inside, right? maybe your examples will help.

(03-22-2014 04:52 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  For me, the most significant, brilliant technical advancements in F1 came with cars like the Lotus 49, The BT46, the Tyrrell P34

lotus 49 - first to use the engine block as a stressed part of the chassis. is that visible? i can't tell whether an engine is sitting on a chassis or part of it. i'm sure some can eyeball that, but there's no way the fans in general can.

bt46 - the fan car. this strikes me as a direct parallel to the blown diffuser. maybe a little more visible than that, since we all know what a fan looks like and what it does. this is aero though, so i'm surprised to see it get picked out as an example. this got snuffed out by the fia pretty quickly as well, so we can see that that practice is nothing new.

tyrrell p34 - the six-wheeler. this, i will grant you, is very very visible. it was also a fundamentally bad idea. not a leap forward so much as a random self-destructive mutation. as an aside, since you seem to be into it, check out the delta wing in the united sportscar championship. it's junk, just like the p34, but it looks weird.



so i still am very confused about the idea of visible technology. maybe i'm being too literal?
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03-26-2014, 07:35 AM (This post was last modified: 03-26-2014 07:36 AM by Original JB.)
Post: #73
RE: 2014 Australian Grand Prix
I found a link to the article appearing in the QANTAS inflight mag, I mentioned earlier in the thread. (interview with QANTAS Brand Ambassador D.Ricciardo)

http://travelinsider.qantas.com.au/spiri...:intro2:ht

Not bad for a No. 2 Driver
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