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Closest finish ever?
07-18-2011, 01:52 AM (This post was last modified: 07-18-2011 01:55 AM by cozmoose.)
Post: #1
Closest finish ever?
In today's 125cc race from Germany, there was a virtual tie at the finish.
official time showed 0.000 second difference between the two riders.
Hector Faubel (yellow bike) won because he had a faster lap than Johann Zarco during the race.

So what is the protocol in F1 when the winner can't be determined by time?

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07-18-2011, 02:41 AM
Post: #2
RE: Closest finish ever?
Das wunderbar! Moto GP race was also very exciting, great three-some battles all the way to the finish line.
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07-18-2011, 04:29 AM
Post: #3
RE: Closest finish ever?
(07-18-2011 01:52 AM)cozmoose Wrote:  So what is the protocol in F1 when the winner can't be determined by time?

2011 FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS
7) DEAD HEAT
7.1 Prizes and points awarded for all the positions of competitors who tie, will be added together and shared equally.

Not sure at what point the cars are deemed tied, though.
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07-18-2011, 05:38 AM
Post: #4
RE: Closest finish ever?
(07-18-2011 04:29 AM)InterRaptor Wrote:  
(07-18-2011 01:52 AM)cozmoose Wrote:  So what is the protocol in F1 when the winner can't be determined by time?

2011 FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS
7) DEAD HEAT
7.1 Prizes and points awarded for all the positions of competitors who tie, will be added together and shared equally.

Not sure at what point the cars are deemed tied, though.
does that mean there are two 1st place finishers each getting 25 points? hmm. interesting.

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07-18-2011, 08:01 AM
Post: #5
RE: Closest finish ever?
(07-18-2011 05:38 AM)cozmoose Wrote:  
(07-18-2011 04:29 AM)InterRaptor Wrote:  
(07-18-2011 01:52 AM)cozmoose Wrote:  So what is the protocol in F1 when the winner can't be determined by time?

2011 FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS
7) DEAD HEAT
7.1 Prizes and points awarded for all the positions of competitors who tie, will be added together and shared equally.

Not sure at what point the cars are deemed tied, though.
does that mean there are two 1st place finishers each getting 25 points? hmm. interesting.

No, assuming it was a tie for the lead, the first and second would be added together and then divided equally, so 21.5 points for each of the two drivers/constructors.

Apparently this was the 6th time this had happened across the top three classes in motorcycle racing. I think the last time was also 125cc involving Lorenzo and Dovizioso in 2004.
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07-18-2011, 10:11 AM
Post: #6
RE: Closest finish ever?
Splitting the points seems more fair to me than awarding the win based on the fastest lap, which might be several laps back and doesn't really say much about overall performance.
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07-18-2011, 11:09 AM
Post: #7
RE: Closest finish ever?
(07-18-2011 10:11 AM)InterRaptor Wrote:  Splitting the points seems more fair to me than awarding the win based on the fastest lap, which might be several laps back and doesn't really say much about overall performance.

It makes the podium easier though. I guess it comes down to how much you want a winner at the end of the race.
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07-18-2011, 12:58 PM
Post: #8
RE: Closest finish ever?
I would give the win to the driver who started furthest down the grid as they have actually driven further faster.

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07-18-2011, 01:13 PM
Post: #9
RE: Closest finish ever?
(07-18-2011 12:58 PM)Yaaay Wrote:  I would give the win to the driver who started furthest down the grid as they have actually driven further faster.

While I can see where it makes sense, you would be actually punishing the driver who performed better in qualifying. I wouldn't find that satisfactory.
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07-18-2011, 01:18 PM
Post: #10
RE: Closest finish ever?
But that driver failed to take advantage of the better qualifying place. If they performed equally in the race they would finish ahead, but merely finishing exactly the same time means they actually drove worse.

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07-18-2011, 01:43 PM
Post: #11
RE: Closest finish ever?
since when was it about who put in the stronger performance? that's like saying they should give it to the person whose teammate did worse because he probably did more with a weaker car. it's racing. where you finish is all that matters.
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07-18-2011, 01:55 PM
Post: #12
RE: Closest finish ever?
(07-18-2011 01:43 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  where you finish is all that matters.

Right, and what we are discussing is how to sort out a dead heat (without the cop out of simply adding and dividing).

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07-18-2011, 02:15 PM
Post: #13
RE: Closest finish ever?
(07-18-2011 01:43 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  since when was it about who put in the stronger performance? that's like saying they should give it to the person whose teammate did worse because he probably did more with a weaker car. it's racing. where you finish is all that matters.

It's still about the stronger performance. Not only of the driver but of the whole team. I don't remember who always says F1 is a team sport, but in the end, the driver who has the better package, makes no (or the least) mistakes and manages to stay out of the other drivers mistakes wins the race.

But to come back to Yaaay's solution, it's really a question whether you consider just the race or the whole grand prix weekend. In the race, the driver who started further back certainly showed a better performance, driving a longer distance in the same time. Over the whole weekend, though, it's more difficult to decide.
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07-18-2011, 02:18 PM
Post: #14
RE: Closest finish ever?
if it's truly a dead heat, i don't see that as a cop out. i see that as accurate.

to me, in an instance of true dead heat, using an arbitrary method of giving one car more points and the other less just to appease the media's/fans' need to declare a winner is the cop out. there wasn't a winner. that's not hard to understand. why pretend?
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07-18-2011, 02:36 PM (This post was last modified: 07-18-2011 02:41 PM by chemics.)
Post: #15
RE: Closest finish ever?
I like the fastest race lap solution, it's a clear cut statistic to use.

Assuming most people haven't watched the race you should if it's easy to come by, it was a fantastic race with a good sized group racing close together for a lot of the race and really dicing for the lead. Definitely one of the best 125cc races in a while.
(07-18-2011 02:18 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  if it's truly a dead heat, i don't see that as a cop out. i see that as accurate.

to me, in an instance of true dead heat, using an arbitrary method of giving one car more points and the other less just to appease the media's/fans' need to declare a winner is the cop out. there wasn't a winner. that's not hard to understand. why pretend?

It's a very American thing to have to have a winner, or that's certainly a stereotype I see, although Motorcycle racing is controlled by the Spanish and I don't know what they are generally like with regard to that.

I think I'd prefer it to be called a tie but it could get awkward with the raising of the flag and the national anthem on the podium. Even if you play both anthems it's hard to raise two flags.

You have to feel for whoever is second though, it's not like setting the fastest lap is something they would consciously try to achieve over a race, especially when they are dicing with other riders.
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