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Wins to decide world champion in 2009
03-17-2009, 03:23 PM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2009 08:15 PM by trickydicky.)
Post: #1
Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Formula 1's world champion in 2009 will be the driver with the most wins during the season, the FIA said on Tuesday.

The governing body also announced that it had rejected a proposal by the Formula One Teams' Association to change the current system. The proposal had been sent by FOTA to the FIA earlier this year.

The FIA announced the current 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system will stay in place, but confirmed the world champion will be the driver who wins the most races in a season.

The points system will be used for the remaining championship positions and in case two or more drivers win the same amount of races during a year.

The Constructors' Championship remains unaffected by the changes.

"The WMSC accepted the proposal from Formula One Management to award the drivers' championship to the driver who has won the most races during the season," said the FIA in a statement.

"If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the current 10, 8, 6 etc. system.

"The rest of the standings, from second to last place, will be decided by the current points system. There is no provision to award medals for first, second or third place. The Constructors' Championship is unaffected.

"The WMSC rejected the alternative proposal from the Formula One Teams' Association to change the points awarded to drivers finishing in first, second and third place to 12, 9 and 7 points respectively. "

FOTA had called for a points system overhaul after it conducted a survey in which fans asked for a greater gap between the points for first and second places to encourage drivers to go for victory.

"FOTA set out and conducted what has been a unique survey," said McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh earlier this month. "That audience survey told us that they wanted greater differentiation for winning and FOTA then considered a broad range of alternatives.

"Inevitably there is a balance to be struck on everything that you do. If you have a very large differentiation between first, second and third it is easy to envisage and to model that seasons may end sooner because championships will be determined sooner.

"And if we reflect on the last two championships they have been quite exciting climaxes and one would say on the face of it why would we want to change? What we felt within FOTA was having conducted a very thorough survey of audience views and advice we shouldn't ignore it.

"There were people who felt status quo was the best thing but I think what swung it was the opinion of the audience. We, as FOTA, have unanimously agreed that is what we want to see introduced this year. We now have to work with the commercial rights holder and with the FIA and seek their endorsement of that proposal."

When the idea for Ecclestone's medals system was aired earlier this year, the FIA produced a document detailing research it had conducted about the impact the concept would have on F1.

It suggested that there would have been 13 occasions when the world title would have been won by a different driver - although the most recent two occasions would have been last year, when Felipe Massa would have won, and in 1989 – when Ayrton Senna, not Alain Prost would have been champion.

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03-17-2009, 04:31 PM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2009 04:31 PM by Yaaay.)
Post: #2
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Well trust the FIA to come up with something neither the FOM or FOTA asked for.

I like the idea of the driver who wins most GP getting the WDC, but I'd rather see it done by having a massive points gap from 1st to 2nd and then 3rd. I think I have spouted 25, 15, 10 etc. before.

I don't like this because it is a hybrid and while I'm sure we can cope with the complication, it is not friendly to the average consumer, who after all make up the majority of the viewers.

So will this get implemented? I think not, it's a standard Max ploy to get his way somewhere else.

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03-17-2009, 05:35 PM
Post: #3
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Ferrari picked up the phone to the FIA because Massa got beat.

This is stupid, and it will bite them in the behind when somebody goes on a tear and wins 5 races more than anybody else by 1/2 way through the year.

Honestly, the last two years have been AWESOME fights.

Lephturn

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03-17-2009, 08:22 PM
Post: #4
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Lephturn Wrote:Ferrari picked up the phone to the FIA because Massa got beat.

This is stupid, and it will bite them in the behind when somebody goes on a tear and wins 5 races more than anybody else by 1/2 way through the year.

Honestly, the last two years have been AWESOME fights.

I agree, last season I watched the latter half of the last race on my feet in front of my TV. I'm sure I wasn't the only person. Why mess with the system that produced such a great conclusion to last season. I'm left scratching my head on this one.
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03-17-2009, 08:32 PM
Post: #5
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Then again, with any other point system Massa would have cleanly won. But the current system a lot would argue was put into place to keep Micheal from winning half way through the season. So, it was more of Massa that got screwed by the system. Not that Lewis didn't clearly win with that system, but I did not like the idea that the winner was not really awarded well in the races. Every old point system had a larger gap between first and second, and thats how it should be.

This new system makes races very hairy when dealing with the battle between first and second. It could really get interesting.

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03-17-2009, 09:24 PM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2009 09:47 AM by Chicago1313.)
Post: #6
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Eternal_Tifosi Wrote:Then again, with any other point system Massa would have cleanly won. But the current system a lot would argue was put into place to keep Micheal from winning half way through the season. So, it was more of Massa that got screwed by the system. Not that Lewis didn't clearly win with that system, but I did not like the idea that the winner was not really awarded well in the races. Every old point system had a larger gap between first and second, and thats how it should be.

This new system makes races very hairy when dealing with the battle between first and second. It could really get interesting.

Massa deserves nothing! Everybody on this forum knows he didn't deserve that win at spa! It's a good thing he didn't win, the whole world would be calling him a paper champion! He piggy backed on the FIA all year!!

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03-18-2009, 12:09 AM
Post: #7
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Yaaay Wrote:I like the idea of the driver who wins most GP getting the WDC, but I'd rather see it done by having a massive points gap from 1st to 2nd and then 3rd. I think I have spouted 25, 15, 10 etc. before.

I agree with the principal, but isn't that the IRL point system?
It's only a short way further down the slippery slope to Le Nascar...
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03-18-2009, 01:22 AM
Post: #8
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
it's my understanding that le nascar has gone the other way, making wins barely better than second place. something ridiculous like 215 to 210.
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03-18-2009, 06:31 AM
Post: #9
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
The rules now mean that you can still win the championship even after a bad start to the season providing you win most of the races in the second half of the season. Worst case scenario, driver a wins 6 races out of the first 8 then finishes 2nd in another 10 but would lose the championship to one who only finished 7 races but won all of them.  
BTW with the new engine rules with a fast car, surely it's worth just running 1 engine for as many races as possible and then have a fresh one for each remaining race. You'd have a great chance to win most of them.  I wonder if any team will adopt this strategy?

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03-18-2009, 08:59 AM
Post: #10
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
I'm all in favor of wins having more importance to the championship, but not in this way. Just restructure the points so that wins are significant.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." — Mario Andretti

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03-18-2009, 11:15 AM
Post: #11
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Vooaaaww,

I liked it. The second in this system is the real "best looser of the bunch".

Be it let anyone race for the win. We will not see a driver settling for 2nd or 3rd.

On the other hand I agree with the view that wins, 2nd and 3rd should be awarded with sparse points.

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ABARTH
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03-18-2009, 11:44 AM
Post: #12
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
After the last two seasons, WHY on earth would anybody want it to change? The only reason I can think of is "Massa/Ferrari didn't win".

We finally get the system down to a point where we have two seasons in a row go down to a single point or two in the final race of the season and NOW you want to change it? I'm sorry, if you voted Yes above I think you are nuts. The whole point of changing the points system in the past was to ensure the battle went down to the final race. Well we finally got a system that does that, so now the plan is to chuck that? Rolleyes

Please, somebody give me a reason we should change it other than "Luca called and he isn't happy."

Lephturn

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03-18-2009, 11:49 AM
Post: #13
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
I think it is a bad joke - Join the facebook protest group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=56613532878

Imagine a highly competitive season, Alonso, Hamilton, Massa, Raikkonen, Kubica, Kovalainnen and Button fighting it out nail and tooth. Alonso scores 3 wins at the beginning of the season when the others have not yet got to grips with the new rules (2 courtesy of his team mate taking out Hamilton accidentally) but no other point scores The others score 2 apiece, with Hamilton and Massa taking 7 seconds and 7 thirds each, with Hamilton taking a further fifth whilct Massa takes a sixth. The others also scoring highly.

The champion - Alonso with 30 points - the losers Hamilton with 122 and Massa with 121 plus most of the rest of the field too.

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03-18-2009, 12:57 PM
Post: #14
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
imagine the desperate, reckless overtaking maneuvers attempted when two contenders are 1-2 and near each other towards the end of the race.

then imagine the inconsistent stewards' rulings to decide whether each desperate, reckless overtaking maneuver warrants a penalty.
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03-18-2009, 01:15 PM
Post: #15
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
I thought "we" wanted desperate reckless overtaking manoeuvres?

and throw in some reckless desperate defensive manoeuvres too.

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03-18-2009, 01:35 PM
Post: #16
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
well, the satonettes do, but that isn't everyone. and i think some of the satonettes prefer them to be at the back of the field, rather than the front.

i don't think anyone enjoyed the lewis/kimi overtaking penalty debacle from last year, but that's the kind of stuff that happens when we value aggression and excitement over quality, precision, and fairness. oh, and nascar happens too.
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03-18-2009, 01:56 PM
Post: #17
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
I'm glad to see that "he who actually wins races will win the championship", but I agree, it should be a combo of points and wins. I do wish the points were just spread out more, so you don't have someone coming in 5th at the end of the season to win a championship. Regardless of how exciting that was, it was still pretty lame to see someone way back in 5th place winning.

So, overall, I do think it's a goodl idea, but it hasn't been implemented well. I suppose we'll see what happens as the season plays out...
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03-18-2009, 04:01 PM
Post: #18
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Massa only had one more win than Hamilton during the season, I think it was pretty reasonable. I think the last two years proved they had the balance just about perfect in terms of points spread rewarding wins. The goal was always to have the championship come down to the last race, and when it finally does two years in a row, they chuck it.

Wait for the hue and cry when the season is over for the WDC with 6 races left. Wait for the screaming and crying when team orders determine the championship.

Also - mark my words - you ain't seen team orders before like you will this season. This is all bad for the sport, nothing good will come of it. The season will be over for the WDC long before the last race, team orders will be obvious and plentiful at the front, and every team will have to pick a team winner. This is going to be all bad. Teams will not be able to afford to let their drivers place 1-2 in whatever order and fight it out at the end, they will have to pick a winner and if that guy gets to 2nd, they'll force the "lesser" driver to move aside somehow. The WDC is too important not to. Oh sure they'll make some half-hearted attempts to mask it to avoid censure, but that's simple enough.

Also, bets on McLaren getting penalized for team orders and Ferrari not getting penalized for doing the same thing?

Lephturn

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03-18-2009, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2009 04:26 PM by Yaaay.)
Post: #19
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
I can't see why it would make more team orders except towards the end of the season, which all previous points systems did anyway. What it might cause is a little strategic crash or pit lane incident to keep a rivals win tally down.

Why can't hey just admit it's a team game and let them get on with it.

I can only see two teams having this trouble, Ferrari and Brawn. They are the only ones with evenly matched drivers. (Yaaay ducks)

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03-18-2009, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-18-2009 04:36 PM by Lephturn.)
Post: #20
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
I say it will mean more team orders. Before I could let Kimi win 2, then Phil win 1 and let them fight it out for the 4th race. If they were running 1-2 with Phil in the lead at race 4, well last year it's not a huge difference, just let them fight it out. Not this year. This year 1 extra win is HUGE, and in the same situation you have got to force Phil to let Kimi past. One driver with 3 wins vs. 2 with 2 wins, it's no contest in this system.

And yes, you will see more banzai overtaking moves from 2nd. What have you got to lose? If I'm in second behind Button I'm just going to say screw it and try a banzai outbreaking move into one of the corners. Worst case, I lose it and take us both out, no loss there. Best case I get a win. That's not good racing it's a demolition derby. I want to see good overtaking with the overtaker risking almost as much as the one being overtaken. Tilt the risks too far one way and you get a crash-fest not good racing.

The crazy part is, you don't have to come up with incentives for drivers to win. Are you kidding me? These are racing drivers dammit! Find me an F1 driver comfortable to cruise home in 2nd and I'll show you somebody bounced out on his hind-end so fast it'll make your head spin. Not that you'd find one anyway.

Lephturn

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03-18-2009, 05:39 PM
Post: #21
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
But wouldn't any system which rewards winning more do this? Should we stay with the 10, 8, 6 system?

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03-18-2009, 05:44 PM
Post: #22
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Yaaay Wrote:Why can't hey just admit it's a team game and let them get on with it.

i'm with you there, but if they admit it's a team game, they'd have to actually talk about the actual championship, the one that works much better, the team championship. the driver is only a part of the team. the drivers' championship is a farse.
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03-18-2009, 07:42 PM
Post: #23
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Lephturn Wrote:Please, somebody give me a reason we should change it other than "Luca called and he isn't happy."

Luca's TV called, and it was very very afraid?

Agreed 100% Rolleyes This whole thing blows, it wasn't broken.

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03-21-2009, 01:58 PM
Post: #24
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Yaaay Wrote:But wouldn't any system which rewards winning more do this? Should we stay with the 10, 8, 6 system?

No, the current system doesn't tilt the risk scale so badly. Yes, you can get a couple more points, and hey you are a racing driver so you want to win.. but if you blow it and lose the 8 points by screwing up it might cost you as well. Risk vs. reward. If they put the new system in place, you can easily get a situation where the P2 car literally has nothing to lose - can't win the championship without actually winning races. That will just lead to stupid crap where P2 just brakes a car length too late and t-bones the T1 car and wrecks them both because only the leader has much to lose.

We should stay with the current system. It was tuned to what it is now to try and ensure a close fight, going down to the last race. Two year in a row, it has delivered exactly the kind of edge-of-your-seat and gotta watch every single lap drama that was the goal when it was put in place. Until I see a boring season out of it, why change it?

Luckily the round condemnation of this silly idea seems to have sunk in. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73810 Well that or it was all another political game by Bernie/Max to control the FOCA.

Lephturn

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03-21-2009, 02:03 PM
Post: #25
RE: Wins to decide world champion in 2009
Lephturn Wrote:
Yaaay Wrote:But wouldn't any system which rewards winning more do this? Should we stay with the 10, 8, 6 system?

No, the current system doesn't tilt the risk scale so badly. Yes, you can get a couple more points, and hey you are a racing driver so you want to win.. but if you blow it and lose the 8 points by screwing up it might cost you as well. Risk vs. reward. If they put the new system in place, you can easily get a situation where the P2 car literally has nothing to lose - can't win the championship without actually winning races. That will just lead to stupid crap where P2 just brakes a car length too late and t-bones the T1 car and wrecks them both because only the leader has much to lose.

We should stay with the current system. It was tuned to what it is now to try and ensure a close fight, going down to the last race. Two year in a row, it has delivered exactly the kind of edge-of-your-seat and gotta watch every single lap drama that was the goal when it was put in place. Until I see a boring season out of it, why change it?

Luckily the round condemnation of this silly idea seems to have sunk in. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73810 Well that or it was all another political game by Bernie/Max to control the FOCA.

I'm glad ro see they've finally come to their senses!!!

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