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FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
02-04-2016, 06:42 PM
Post: #26
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
how many injuries will the head protection prevent, and how many will the vision obstruction cause? i hope it's a net benefit, but i'm skeptical.
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02-05-2016, 03:01 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2016 03:02 PM by chemics.)
Post: #27
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(02-04-2016 06:42 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  how many injuries will the head protection prevent, and how many will the vision obstruction cause? i hope it's a net benefit, but i'm skeptical.

is their much vision obstruction? The halo is above the drivers line of sight and the pillar is where they always had an aerial sticking up anyway. The testing will have highlighted how much it got in the way and I'm sure they will run prototypes through this year with the test teams long before it is seen in a race.

(02-04-2016 06:12 PM)leonbray Wrote:  oh goodie

got to love these decisions

Why not go the full monty and make something outlandish that works

The rabble couldn't get over the noise for 18 months, closing the cockpit would kill half of them. Tongue
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02-05-2016, 04:45 PM
Post: #28
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(02-05-2016 03:01 PM)chemics Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 06:42 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  how many injuries will the head protection prevent, and how many will the vision obstruction cause? i hope it's a net benefit, but i'm skeptical.

is their much vision obstruction? The halo is above the drivers line of sight and the pillar is where they always had an aerial sticking up anyway. The testing will have highlighted how much it got in the way and I'm sure they will run prototypes through this year with the test teams long before it is seen in a race.

it doesn't look like much obstruction, but it is some. there's a reason we don't have split windshields on our cars anymore. the pillar is going to have to be more substantial than a radio aerial, obviously, and it's a lot closer to the driver's face than the aerial, which will make it look even bigger. i hope it's not an issue. it just leapt out at me as odd to have a safety device planted right in front of the driver's eyes.
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02-05-2016, 04:59 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2016 05:01 PM by chemics.)
Post: #29
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(02-05-2016 04:45 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  
(02-05-2016 03:01 PM)chemics Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 06:42 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  how many injuries will the head protection prevent, and how many will the vision obstruction cause? i hope it's a net benefit, but i'm skeptical.

is their much vision obstruction? The halo is above the drivers line of sight and the pillar is where they always had an aerial sticking up anyway. The testing will have highlighted how much it got in the way and I'm sure they will run prototypes through this year with the test teams long before it is seen in a race.

it doesn't look like much obstruction, but it is some. there's a reason we don't have split windshields on our cars anymore. the pillar is going to have to be more substantial than a radio aerial, obviously, and it's a lot closer to the driver's face than the aerial, which will make it look even bigger. i hope it's not an issue. it just leapt out at me as odd to have a safety device planted right in front of the driver's eyes.

True, I also wonder how much interpretation there is in the design. A part of me thinks the Halo area looks like it would make a nice little extra wing, or something to channel air flow to the rear.

I expect no matter what they do a driver that dislikes it will blame it on an accident at some point.

**edit**

It could also create issues with shadowing that don't exist today that could be a pain. Depending on the position of the sun you could be getting the same effect as going under a bridge at several corners per lap.
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02-05-2016, 07:18 PM
Post: #30
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
if they let the teams play with that space, it will definitely be used for airflow management; funneling air to the intake and splitting off the rest to either side with minimal turbulence.

how light plays off it is something i hadn't thought of. they'll have to experiment a lot to work that out, since they race at so many different times of day. shadows could be a concern, and also, glare off the inside edge of the rim when driving away from the sun could be a problem.
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02-06-2016, 12:28 AM
Post: #31
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
there are plenty of high strength clear polycarbonates that could be used to make a deflecting device, without inhibiting vision or detracting from the appearance of the car. The drivers sit so low in the car that it doesn't need to be very high. What it won't stop is damage cause by a flying wheel

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02-11-2016, 09:48 AM
Post: #32
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(02-06-2016 12:28 AM)leonbray Wrote:  there are plenty of high strength clear polycarbonates that could be used to make a deflecting device, without inhibiting vision or detracting from the appearance of the car. The drivers sit so low in the car that it doesn't need to be very high. What it won't stop is damage cause by a flying wheel

I think it significantly reduces the space for something like that to hot a driver. It would have to be from directly above to get to them with the halo. If it was bouncing debris, like Justin Wilsons crash, it should be deflected.
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02-11-2016, 11:45 AM
Post: #33
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
My memory is bad. In the last 20 years, how many drivers were injured/killed by flying debris in open wheel formulas? what's the ratio to other injuries/fatalities?

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02-11-2016, 11:52 AM
Post: #34
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(02-11-2016 11:45 AM)Miguel Wrote:  My memory is bad. In the last 20 years, how many drivers were injured/killed by flying debris in open wheel formulas? what's the ratio to other injuries/fatalities?

Henry Surtees and Justin Wilson are the two I can remember, plus Massa's accident with the spring. I think there have been a few near misses as well, Hinchcliffe was hit by part of a front wing and got lucky.
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02-11-2016, 01:13 PM
Post: #35
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
So, two non-F1 fatalities and one accident over 20 years, and the Surtees accident would have been avoided if GP2 followed F1 on tethered wheels.
All loss is a loss too many but I sense politically-correct overreaction plus a bunch of apparatchiks in need of justifying their existence.

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02-11-2016, 02:18 PM
Post: #36
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(02-11-2016 01:13 PM)Miguel Wrote:  So, two non-F1 fatalities and one accident over 20 years, and the Surtees accident would have been avoided if GP2 followed F1 on tethered wheels.
All loss is a loss too many but I sense politically-correct overreaction plus a bunch of apparatchiks in need of justifying their existence.

I think Justin Wilson was pretty close to home for a lot of F1 drivers who grew up karting with him and knew him from his F1 days. When fatal/serious accidents are rare you are into the law of diminishing returns with new safety measures, but it isn't a good reason to stop improving, but this does feel a bit knee jerk though with how fast it was made a priority. I just hope they don't screw it up by rushing.

Hopefully they also listened to drivers rather than the rabble in their decision making.
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02-11-2016, 04:47 PM
Post: #37
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
Would Koinigg's or Cevert's death be prevented? Not flying debris, but exposure certainly played a part.

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02-11-2016, 07:52 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 07:52 PM by Koala.)
Post: #38
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
So they will now have to have a guy with a squeegee at pit stops ? :-)
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02-11-2016, 07:56 PM
Post: #39
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(02-11-2016 07:52 PM)Koala Wrote:  So they will now have to have a guy with a squeegee at pit stops ? :-)

E didn't require a member of his pit crew to do it for him...
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02-12-2016, 09:06 AM
Post: #40
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(02-11-2016 04:47 PM)Jackson Wrote:  Would Koinigg's or Cevert's death be prevented? Not flying debris, but exposure certainly played a part.

and you can add Tom Pryce and maybe others but then we're over the 20 years horizon I had mentioned, therefore widening the overall basis.
Exposure does play a part, but so does poorly designed barriers, roll-over bars placed lower than the top of the helmet, marshals running across the track with fire extinguishers and cars doing 300km/h.

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02-13-2016, 01:15 AM (This post was last modified: 02-13-2016 01:16 AM by Neonzapper.)
Post: #41
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
FIA testing . After this video, stay tuned for the next video with Peter Windsor...


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09-26-2016, 07:44 PM
Post: #42
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
Renderings of the halo on current cars

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/concep...o-10840092

Hopefully we will get some form of clear aero screen than this gross ugliness

When was the last time we had a good looking F1 car with simple elegant lines

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09-26-2016, 09:11 PM
Post: #43
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
does that look like an f1 car to you? it looks way closer to a sports car prototype to me. put a floor under the front and you're basically there.
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09-26-2016, 11:46 PM (This post was last modified: 09-26-2016 11:56 PM by leonbray.)
Post: #44
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(09-26-2016 09:11 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  does that look like an f1 car to you? it looks way closer to a sports car prototype to me. put a floor under the front and you're basically there.


and another "seat". Probably look ok without the front wheel covers and an open cockpit behind the aero screen. Canard aero behind the front wheels would be interesting

Halos are just downright ugly

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09-27-2016, 12:49 AM
Post: #45
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(09-26-2016 11:46 PM)leonbray Wrote:  
(09-26-2016 09:11 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  does that look like an f1 car to you? it looks way closer to a sports car prototype to me. put a floor under the front and you're basically there.


and another "seat".

not even another "seat," let alone another seat. they're barely offset at all these days.

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07-20-2017, 08:09 PM
Post: #46
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
Halo in 2018. F1 is becoming a victim of the nanny state. About as exciting as activity on the forums

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07-20-2017, 09:37 PM
Post: #47
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
i'll reserve final judgment until the teams get a chance to put their superior engineers to work on it, but i'm still very skeptical of this idea.
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07-24-2017, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 07-24-2017 12:04 PM by chemics.)
Post: #48
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(09-26-2016 07:44 PM)leonbray Wrote:  When was the last time we had a good looking F1 car with simple elegant lines

Probably around the late 60's when the engineers started to get into aero. Everything since has had wings of some sort.

(07-20-2017 09:37 PM)frankdouglason Wrote:  i'll reserve final judgment until the teams get a chance to put their superior engineers to work on it, but i'm still very skeptical of this idea.

I'd agree with the skepticism and that we should wait until we see the final versions. Between clever engineers and clever marketing placement I'm sure they will look a lot different. The teams won't have wasted a lot of resources on this in the early concept stage.
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07-26-2017, 01:39 AM
Post: #49
RE: FIA to propose F1 'windscreen' to protect drivers Racing series F1
(07-24-2017 12:01 PM)chemics Wrote:  
(09-26-2016 07:44 PM)leonbray Wrote:  When was the last time we had a good looking F1 car with simple elegant lines

Probably around the late 60's when the engineers started to get into aero. Everything since has had wings of some sort.

'twas a simpler time. i wouldn't trade all of our fun technology, but those cars were very pretty.
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