Some people might say what Felipe did was courageous.
He put aside his own personal goals to help out the team, no matter how ego-bruising it was to be told to slow down for Alonso.
I say bullshit.
What Felipe did was cowardly. He should have stood up to "his team" and ignored the order.
I guarantee that the public would have been on Felipe's side and Ferrari would be under massive media scrutiny.
Like Red Bull, Ferrari would have had to explain itself. Are they treating both drivers equally?
Even if Felipe got fired for disobedience, at least his honor would be intact and he would have no problem finding a ride next year.
Instead, he took the easy way out. He chose job security and Ferrari money over self dignity and will to win.
Now the world knows you Felipe as #2. Just like Rubens.
Team orders that you found so humiliating will be issued fast and furious.
You might think to yourself, "Next year everything will be back to even and Ferrari would let us fight until someone is clearly ahead."
Don't kid yourself! Ferrari will never ever let you be in that position.
If you even have a sniff of getting the better of Fernando, you'll be receiving that familiar transmission from your pal Rob Smedley.
"Fernando is faster than you. Fernando has always been faster than you. Did you understand that message?"
Welcome to your new life Felipe.
Welcome to your new life as Driver #2.
Welcome to your new life as Fernando's bitch.
Alonso stikes again! His win in Singapore took a possible world title from Phil. Now he's taking Phil's comeback win. Massa should move to Renault ASAP!
(07-26-2010 07:18 AM)cozmoose Wrote: [ -> ]........................
Even if Felipe got fired for disobedience, at least his honor would be intact and he would have no problem finding a ride next year.
Instead, he took the easy way out. He chose job security and Ferrari money over self dignity and will to win.
Now the world knows you Felipe as #2. .....................
I can't see Felipe at this stage in his career getting another drive in any front running team and likely he would not earn the sort of money he is on anywhere else. The reality is Felipe has always been a #2 at Ferrari albeit for a brief time when Kimi lost interest he might have made it to equal ranking.
I think Felipe knows his role / position at Ferrari - better a #2 at Ferrari than a #1 at HRT
Does anyone believe Felipe was in with a Chance for this years title? I think Alonso should have just made a propper pass though. The radio call and this blatant on track thing was a bit rubbish.
some fun facts:
-f1 is a team sport, whether the fans like it or not
-the drivers can't build the car and run the team on their own - they need their team
-f1 teams are under no obligation to treat their drivers equally, and none do
-felipe was always the #2 driver; under michael, under kimi, under felipe
as an aside, i think telling felipe he should get himself fired because it would make the race more interesting to you is the most selfish thing i've ever heard.
I think no one would have had a problem if the "team orders" rule was never there, and Ferrari had told Felipé to move over when Alonso was all over his gearbox. That would have been a sensible call and Ferrari would have had their 1-2 victory with honour and deservedly.
I guarantee El Eyebrow has this written into his contract - and Philipe's.
(07-26-2010 10:58 AM)Lephturn Wrote: [ -> ]I guarantee El Eyebrow has this written into his contract - and Philipe's.
The TSN commentators mentioned it, they said it would explain Massa's 2 year contract extension if he had been happy to sign on as number 2.
I have never been a fan of team orders. And yes, they do still exist regardless of whether they are "against the rules" or not. But I don't get the fan outrage. What happened is no different from Shumacher and Barrichello several years ago. Shame on Ferrari for telling Massa to let him past. Shame on Massa for obeying. Shame on Fred for doing it. I tend to think that if Alonso wanted past he should have passed on his own earlier in the race, but he couldn't get it done. I wouldn't want a win that way. If I were Alonso I would like to think that I would have refused to pass Massa under those circumstances. I would have slowed down and stayed behind Massa. But all that being said, the team does what they think is best for the team and the drivers are driving for the team, not for themselves.
alonso tried once and it didn't stick. then he kept letting the gap build to a few seconds and close it up, but not attacking. i'd wager the team told him not to pass for risk of a red bull at turkey incident.
don't limit team orders to ferrari holding back brazilians. how did heikki get on at mclaren? or fisi at renault? or rubens at brawn? or dc at mclaren? it goes on and on. why do people who don't like f1 watch f1?
Well you can't say that a driver drives 100% for the team only sure they drive for them selves. This is different to Austria though. As that was one of those rare instances where Schumacher was owned. Rubens was like 10 second or something ahead Schumi and was in his element where Schumi's only answer to Ruben's speed was some radio calls to Brawn, and Rubens grugingly obliged on the very last lap.
Here Massa had a great start and Alonso was all over his back with two unsuccesful attempts, one almost resulted in a crash where Massa closed the door on him. The other difference is Alonso has a lot more of a chance at the title than Massa and Alonso needs the help against the drivers in other teams. In 2002 Ferrari were following consecutive dominant seasons and already looking strong, Schumi didn't need the points that much.
If Massa wants to be #1 he needs to be in these positions more often.
(07-26-2010 01:00 PM)LappedTraffic Wrote: [ -> ]If I were Alonso I would like to think that I would have refused to pass Massa under those circumstances. I would have slowed down and stayed behind Massa. But all that being said, the team does what they think is best for the team and the drivers are driving for the team, not for themselves.
If you were Alonso you would have passed him, it's what number 1 drivers do. If you want to win title you need the most points, you don't turn 7 free ones down if the team tell you that you are free to pass.
Any driver that wouldn't do it wouldn't be driving for a top team, or probably in F1 for that matter. Any driver that says they wouldn't do it is lying, certainly in the modern era,
What a load of crap
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2...11071.html
$100K is nothing to Ferrari.
And Massa's comments at the end that his tires were going off. If that were so, why not just wait for Fred to overtake you? Why would you need to slow down and let him pass? It's not like Fred was right on your gearbox at the time. What a load of crap.
I am so sick of the between race controversies. Just go racing guys. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing and not the World Wrestling Federation or Nascar. Just shut up and drive!
$100k was the maximum fine the stewards could impose, which is why they referred it to the WMSC for further resolution. I at least expect a proper fine, if nothing else.
I still hope for a Ferrari DQ to rescue my predictions score for the week.
(07-26-2010 02:43 PM)chemics Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2010 01:00 PM)LappedTraffic Wrote: [ -> ]If I were Alonso I would like to think that I would have refused to pass Massa under those circumstances. I would have slowed down and stayed behind Massa. But all that being said, the team does what they think is best for the team and the drivers are driving for the team, not for themselves.
If you were Alonso you would have passed him, it's what number 1 drivers do. If you want to win title you need the most points, you don't turn 7 free ones down if the team tell you that you are free to pass.
Any driver that wouldn't do it wouldn't be driving for a top team, or probably in F1 for that matter. Any driver that says they wouldn't do it is lying, certainly in the modern era,
That's the reason why I'm not an F1 driver. I would be a flat-out balls-to-the-wall bad-a$$ mother-f'ker, not any of this "Mother may I pass please.." crap.
the teams don't make the controversies, the publicists and the media do. when i heard the radio transmission, i thought "it's about time!" i didn't think there was a controversy until i got on the net afterwards.
(07-26-2010 02:59 PM)frankdouglason Wrote: [ -> ]the teams don't make the controversies, the publicists and the media do. when i heard the radio transmission, i thought "it's about time!" i didn't think there was a controversy until i got on the net afterwards.
Me too. I didn't have any major problem with the race until I started looking at the web and the forums.
(07-26-2010 03:09 PM)LappedTraffic Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2010 02:59 PM)frankdouglason Wrote: [ -> ]the teams don't make the controversies, the publicists and the media do. when i heard the radio transmission, i thought "it's about time!" i didn't think there was a controversy until i got on the net afterwards.
Me too. I didn't have any major problem with the race until I started looking at the web and the forums.
Eh?
I thought at least one of you was a lawyer?
Ho hum.
Of course the real problem was the on-air, live attitude struck by Messrs Massa and Smedley. That whipped up the media and fan hysteria and forced the stewards/FIA in to doing something. Damn all would have happened if they'd just kowtowed and meekly accepted it.
So, when I'm a team principal I'm going to have draconian penalties written in to contracts about on-air radio transmissions and interviews, and let team orders look after themselves.
(07-26-2010 03:45 PM)drmarkf Wrote: [ -> ]I thought at least one of you was a lawyer?
yeah, not a publicist. ferrari didn't break any rules.
(07-26-2010 03:45 PM)drmarkf Wrote: [ -> ]So, when I'm a team principal I'm going to have draconian penalties written in to contracts about on-air radio transmissions and interviews, and let team orders look after themselves.
hear, hear!
You would still have to get rid of this silly rule first.
I'm not sure you would, if you keep it quiet it seems to slide by relatively easily. It's not like this hasn't happened before in the last few years, it just incites the FIA when there is open mic bitching about it. It's about time the team principles put their foot down and sorted it out.
Not that it isn't great for the forums, but whatever happened to teams keeping their dirty laundry out of public view.
(07-26-2010 04:44 PM)chemics Wrote: [ -> ]whatever happened to teams keeping their dirty laundry out of public view.
it's been a real problem this year, hasn't it? alonso, ferrari, webber, red bull. it's out of control.
Not out of control, it just seems like this year every little thing is getting people going, maybe I am paying more attention this year, or maybe we are lacking a big story for a change.
alonso and ferrari, and lewis early in the season, had normal level outbursts that will blow over. lewis' already did.
what webber, and subsequently his mechanics, has been doing is really out of line. worse than anything i've seen during a season.